Shannon

A new TPWD policy (or guideline -- it's unclear yet which it is) for apparently all Texas state-run parks is that geocache owners must register with the park's office before placing geocaches on park premises. The most notable example of this are the caches at Enchanted Rock SNA which have apparently been confiscated and will be held until the owners register at the park office.

On a related note, in mid-2004 I specifically wrote to TPWD (via their website) inquiring about any policies they might have in regards to geocaching, similar to the policies the National Park Service has established. I received no response. I guess my inquiry was a year too soon.

There are presently no geocaching related policies publicly listed on TPWD's website. In the event those are published, I'll share that information here.

For more information on geocaching in general, visit http://www.geocaching.com/faq. For information on geocaching in Texas, specifically, visit the Texas Geocaching Association.

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TxCamper

Those are not new guidelines. Those have been in place for a long time and have been discussed on TXGA before and as well as posted there. Even though it is not listed on thier site as they dont wanna promote it in thier parks. It is listed at the front of most parks and all of them are aware that it goes on. The 500ft rule will limit a lot saturation of caches within State Park grounds. Unless things become a problem you wont see much of anything on the site as that would be contested as an endoresement on TPWD part. That from the words of a couple of park rangers.

Shannon

Thanks for the additional information. Like I said, TPWD never responded to my inquiries so my information is based on some updates to cache listings in various Texas State Parks on geocaching.com, from the cache owners and cachers who found the caches no longer at their listed coordinations.

I myself have never placed a cache, only visited various caches, otherwise I might be more familiar with placement rules. I wouldn't place a cache unless I knew the landowner, in this case the State of Texas, was fine with the cache being placed on their property.

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Alchemist2000

Shannon, if you have some specific info, I would love to see it.

My experience with the state parks is that the rangers' reponses seem to cover the entire spectrum. The ranger in Ray Roberts State Park recently posted on each of the many geocaches in the park, asking that the owners contact him before placing a cache in the future. That included one of our caches. I called him immediately, since we HAD contacted the park management prior to placing our cache several years earlier. He was very friendly and nice. He updated our contact information and everything was fine. I subsequently worked with him to place a terracache in the park. Again, that went extremely smoothly. He just wanted to be informed of the location (I presume he would have vetoed the lcoation if he were unhappy about it!) and wanted to be sure there was nothing inappropriate in the cache. I think your term "register" may technically be correct. However, it is nothing particularly formal, like in some states that require a permit. I got the impression the ranger, at least in this park, just wanted to know what people were doing.

In some parks (Lake Tawakoni is a good example but there are many others) the rangers actually encourage geocaching because they know it helps bring more visitors to their park. On the other hand, there are some other parks (I won't mention names), where the rangers are very opposed to geocaches. Enchanted Rock may have been one of them, I don't know. It is usually in those cases that they confiscate the caches. With the exception of the relatively new terracache at ER, I think most of the caches were VERY old and likely did not go through the same approval process that would be expected with new caches. In any case, if people placing caches in state parks will work with the rangers, I believe most of the problems can likely be resolved.

I just hope the TPWD will come to realize the many low-maintenance (from their point of view) visits and extra annual pass sales geocaching is bringing to the park system. We are a good example of that. We were only vaguely aware of the state parks before geocaching and never had an annual pass. Now we have had one for several years and will be renewing it later this month for yet another year. That is common among the geocachers I know. Solely because of geocaching, we have now been to nearly half of the 120 Texas state parks. Yes, even I was stunned when I counted them all. Much of our free time, including vacations, is centered on visiting Texas state parks...primarily for geocaching. Needless to say, we love both geocaching/ terracaching and we are huge supporters of the Texas state park system. I know geocaching and the park system can and do benefit one another in many parks throughout the state. I hope irresponsible cache placers don't ruin what could be a really good thing for everyone involved.

Shannon

Thanks for the terrific, insightful post.

The extent of my information was from several entries on Geocaching.com regarding various Enchanted Rock SNA caches which were in my Watchlist (I'm user "WildTexas" on Geocaching.com.) The gist of my post was nearly verbatim what cachers have posted in their Geocaching.com entries for some Erock caches -- see http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache...e-a2a5b12a8af2
for one such post.

Those coupled with my existing knowledge that TPWD had no publicly stated, uniformly applied policy on geocaching, to make it seem as though this latest note regarding ERock was indeed a new TPWD policy, perhaps as-yet documented on their website.

I am a geocacher myself. I love the sport although my primary reason for visiting parks is to hike and camp, and I often forget to obtain coordinates for caches when I travel. My only issue with geocaches is probably the same as many TPWD park rangers -- some caches are placed poorly, in sensitive areas or too far off trail, and there are parks where I'm familiar with the cache placement and I've seen over months' time side trails and underbrush disruption develop as people "bushwhack" to find a cache that some more thoughtful locating could access with far less disruption. It is for this reason that I think I prefer virtual caches and microcaches.

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Alchemist2000

Thanks for the info about the logs at ER. You are right about social trails if the cache is not well designed or put in a bad location. Noone likes to see that, especially those of us that are geocaching primarily as an enhancement to our love of the outdoors. However, microcaches are not the answer. :no:

Microcaches in the woods close to a trail are the worst possible combination for disruption of the area. Microcaches are harder to find than something larger, like an ammo box. Therefore people are at the cache site longer and are more likely to tear up the whole area looking for it. Any hide (large or small) that is close to a trail will likely be approached from the same spot on the trail, i.e. the closest approach from the trail. Unless the area is rock or some other hard surface, you will get a social trail from that closest spot on the trail to the cache. I know it may seem counterintuitive, but a cache that is (1) large (therefore easier to find), (2) a fairly long distance off-trail (therefore lending itself to multiple approaches rather than a single trail), and (3) on a hard surface is the best combination for the least disruption of the area. If I could only get this message through to more cache placers I think there would be fewer problems....or that continues to be my naive hope. [/soapbox]

TxCamper

Geocaching isnt helping the State Parks. Its actually hurting it and its being discussed in Austin right now about ether banning it or having a Corpration control and/or govern them in State Parks. The reason being is because thier is a family sueing the State because of one placed in a park that a kid got injured from trying to find it that was misproperly placed and since the Park knew about the cache and they allowed it to be placed. The State doesnt wanna hold that responsablity and the State doesnt want the bad rep. Thats why the are considered it being gov. or banning them all together.

Alchemist2000

Do you have any online information about that? It is the first I have heard about it.

Edit (5-14-05): I think some of TxCamper's sources may have been misinformed. Those persons dealing directly with TPWD, including the officers of the Texas Geocaching Association, tell a very different story. See for example, http://www.texasgeocaching.com/forum...?TOPIC_ID=2737

Shannon

Thank you for the followup -- even the hair on the back of my neck was starting to stand on end (accompanied by a none-too-polite uttering of "What the he--!?")

Those still reading this thread probably already know this, but just in case, here's a link to some more information along the lines of my original post -- http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/ind...howtopic=98032

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TxCamper

Your right i dont know anything, im not a park host at a SP and i dont have family that works in the Governors Office. So my credibility isnt worth the bandwidth its wasting.

Just ask yourself this question. Would you want to advertise your dirty lanudry?

Shannon

Whose dirty laundry are we advertising here? And I'm unclear on who here has ever claimed to be a park host, park official or government employee (or relative of one, even). The regulars here, myself included (as host of the website) are merely parks enthusiasts of various colors -- some are hikers or backpackers, others are cyclists or equestrians, geocachers, photographers who love the outdoors, etc.

TO ALL WHO READ THIS: I'm not sure what's in the water lately, but the attitude of people not just in these forums but in other Texas forums I follow is pretty poor. People need to either get out more, or spend some time reflecting on what it means to be a Texan... a bad attitude isn't part of that equation.

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- Shannon Moore
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