kai

Helotes Heritage Association

I'm not sure how much of this has popped up in the San Antonio news, but I thought I would post this link here due to the potential impact on local biking in the Helotes/grey Forest/Leon Springs area of San Antonio. Walmart is proposing to put a store on the corner of Bandera Rd & Scenic Loop Rd- a popular intersection for cyclists (in a quaint, quiet town, I might add). Not only would the noise and pollution of a walmart (think of all those cars, and the lines of traffic) destroy the area aesthetically, but it would also be a huge safety issue, with all those cars turning in and out of the store, and racing along scenic loop road from Leon Springs to Helotes. Currently, this is a great ride- low traffic, and scenic, winding roads. But if Walmart gets their way, and puts a store in at the corner of Scenic Loop and Bandera in Helotes, that whole stretch of road between Leon Springs, Grey Forest, and Helotes is going to see a significant increase in the speed and volume of traffic, and will likely make it too unsafe for cyclists.

I urge all San Antonio cyclists to pay attention to this issue- it will seriously impact the availability of cycling in that neck of the woods.

Shannon

I'm trying to visualize where the Walmart would go... that 1604/Bandera Road intersection is already extremely developed, particularly over the last 1.5 years. To me, driving that direction out to Helotes now feels like nothing more than an extension of San Antonio. "Back in the day" (5-7 years ago), there used to be a clear delineation "Ah, we're leaving San Antonio," and "Hello, Helotes!" Now, there are probably 160 businesses, restaurants, fast food places and and 10 housing developments between Helotes and the Bandera/Prue Road intersection.

The intersection I'm thinking of is already developed on all available corners, and the development continues on up Bandera Road (away from Helotes). Housing tracts start almost immediately on the right, heading to Helotes. There's also a high school out that direction (O'Connor). At this location, Walmart would be no more or less of a blight than all the others.

Am I missing a key distinction on the location? You mentioned Leon Springs, and that sounds more like the area you describe. While I see cyclists at 1604/Bandera occasionally, I'd hardly describe the ride as "quiet" or the surroundings "quaint". It used to be, but that was long before Walmart perked up its ears.

Also, the only spin I've heard on the news is that Helotes' city council is "wooing" Walmart, which somewhat surprised me. I'm not sure why, given all the other development that's been permitted right up to their doorstep.

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Shannon

I have to switch to other tasks but the more I try to research this the more it gets confusing. I've found conflicting reports of Helotes' official stance on the issue (which actually seems to have shifted to joining the suit against Walmart to block their development), and no further details on exact location. At this point, even GPS coordinates would be better than "at the corner of" when I can't think of a green corner in that vicinity. There used to be many, and that's why I'm interested -- if we're down to ONE LEFT, surely we can protect that one from a pavement farm (superstore), no?

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oceanus

Wal-Mart is notorious for these types of stunts. Look at this link about Wal-Mart at Teotihuacan, Mexico; site of the Pyramids of the Sun & Moon.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1022-06.htm

kai

Shannon- its out BEYOND the 1604 loop (further NW). Scenic loop road runs from SH16 to grey forest, then eventually meets up with the end of hausman rd (kind of behind frederich park-ish. in the hills behind there) at a T intersection. Scenic Loop rd eventually intersects Boerne Stage rd at the intersection where Scenic Loop Cafe is located. (if you haven't been to the Scenic Loop cafe- go). Boerne stage road then connects with I-10 in leon springs.

here's a map, if it works- not sure if mapquest will replicate the directions.

the area there is still pretty rural. there is one mom and pop mexican restaurant located across from the intersection. there are nice, older residential ranch-type homes across the street and immediately adjacent to the proposed walmart property. There is a protected cave up on the hill behind it that contains protected cave invertebrates. scenic loop road is still a 2-lane windy, residential road (one lane in either direction). Its not developed at all, really- not anything at all like the intersection of Loop 1604 and Bandera Rd. Its actually a really pretty area- worth a quick drive on a nice day. it is SO pretty over there. and fairly quiet.

if you were to take a drive over there, i'd start at the I-10/Boerne Stage Rd intersection (by the HEB in leon springs). follow that to the south/west. when you get to the 4-way intersection (where scenic loop cafe is located) take a left onto Scenic Loop Rd. follow that up and down a few hills. at the stop sign (thats Hausman Rd on the left)- stay straight. after you wind down the hill, that little "town" is Grey Forest. and yes, that is pretty much the entire town. Stay on scenic loop rd. Scenic Loop Rd ends at a stoplight where it intersects SH 16. the property on the right hand corner- mostly a big field with a fireworks stand on the SH16 side- is where the walmart is supposed to go in.

I hope that helps- its one of my favorite areas of "san antonio". Its worth taking a look at- if nothing else, in order to do a "before" and "after" comparison of the effects that a walmart has on a rural area, if walmart ends of coming in. I hope it doesn't.

keep in mind that that intersection is not too very far from fredrich park and the soon to be opened crown ridge natural area, where there are black capped vireos and golden cheeked warblers (both endagered birds), in season.

also keep in mind that if walmart comes in, then most likely, it wont come in alone. it will, at least eventually, draw all sorts of other parasite commercial interests to the immediate area.

Shannon

Thanks, that description and map refresher sorted me out. I knew I must've had it wrong, since I couldn't think of a bare spot of land at the Bandera/1604 intersection! I now know exactly where you're talking about, and it's definitely one of the last "natural" areas around San Antonio. And you're definitely right that with one large retail store, especially a Walmart, others follow quickly. That's exactly how the Bandera/1604 intersection went from nothing but a Jim's restaurant to 160+ stores and fast food eateries in the span of several years. And as more retail development moves in, any available land gets purchased for more housing developments, which feeds the cycle more.

Having grown up in Southern California (my first 5 or 6 years on Earth) and the rest of my life here in San Antonio, I've only experienced cities that ceaselessly sprawl outwards, incorporating once outer-lying areas and developing them. And yet I know even quaint mountain towns in Colorado that have, over the course of my lifetime, turned into nothing like they once were, which is to say they're now over-commercialized, over-hyped tourist-traps rather than quaint, genuine towns (and if anyone in Redstone, Colorado, wants to disagree with me they can. It's just not the same anymore.)

The same things that draw many of us to a place are the first things that get dulled when development (or "progress" if you're an investor) moves in. And with all the land area we have in Texas, we seem to expand outward at the fastest pace of all -- because we can, unimpeded by mountains, other major cities (which resist incorporation), or the ocean.

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kai

but does it have to be a foregone conclusion? is there no way to fight sprawl? is there no way to stop walmart? is it hopeless?

my little rural town up here in Mass has prevented fast food and chain stores from coming in through numerous zoning laws: preventing electrified signs (wooden only, lit by a single bulb - or something like that - certainly no neon or back lit plastic signs), regulating parking lot sizes and distance/visibility of parking lots from the road, regulating the style of construction, limiting lighting options for parking lots, banning drive thrus, etc. with land prices here being so expensive, they've basically made it impossible to advertise businesses, or locate them accessibly. it sounds harsh, but economically we're doing perfectly fine- the farms are survivng, the quality of life has been preserved, and we're not even an hour outside of Boston. We have an interstate on the edge of town (and en exit onto main street).

i'm not saying this would work everywhere. but there are ways to stop the sprawl. does the NW/W side of san antonio really NEED another walmart - especially there? do there need to be HEBs and walmarts and fast food on every corner? its a bit ridiculous & i do not miss THAT part of San Antonio. Not that i had a choice in my moving, but if I did, that would be the number one reason why I left: urban sprawl.

Shannon

Clearly, with strict zoning restrictions and SUPERB urban planning -- which few large U.S. cities really posess -- that (sub)urbanization and sprawl can be steadied, if not stopped. But I wager it, too, comes at a price -- a financial one, in terms of much higher taxes and higher land costs. More controlled areas tend to command a higher price -- a "luxury tax" if you will, even though in this case the "luxury" may be nothing more than not having a neighbor's bedroom window within arm's reach of your bathroom window, as in more suburban areas.

We do have some reasonably well zoned and controlled communities that are physically located within San Antonio's city limits yet are their own entities. Their strength is in their size -- they're small (relatively speaking). Hollywood Park. Hill Country Village. They're mostly residential areas, places people have taken a firm stand to protect because it's where they live -- what they see outside their windows in the morning, on the way to work/school/church/daycare/etc., rather than "on the other side of town" or "across the river" or "down in the valley". It's why some Helotes and area residents are fighting Walmart, while other folks (yes, like me) grimace, then shrug -- "Another Walmart. Big surprise. {sarcasm}"

Clearly, Walmart and other businesses won't move in where they're truly not wanted, and showing them they're not wanted is generally done through strict (excessive?) taxation or legislation -- ultimately, anyway. But I guess the carry-on to your questions is -- do people really not want that supermarket around the corner, that superstore on their way home from work, that Blockbuster video where their teenager can work summers and they can pick up a flick on a Saturday night? And a surprising array of "Mom & Pop" stores do open in those ugly strip malls we all hate (judging by the looks on fellow drivers faces whenever I have to visit one. )

As much as I'd like to call myself an good environmentalist, I'd be dishonest if I didn't admit I wasn't also part of the problem. Was I not silently happy when a do it yourself car wash sprouted up near my home (not within sight of it, but conveniently accessible from it)? Or the locally-owned, but franchised mail center? Or the drug store (formerly Eckerd, now owned by CVS, as the new neon sign declares)?

It's easy for me to grouse when I see signs announcing a new bar, low rent apartment complex, or strip mall with stores I'll never visit. In the same way, Walmart's sort of an easy scapegoat. A big, faceless corporation coming to take over a defenseless town. But corporations aren't really faceless, and towns really aren't defenseless -- they're both made up of people, citizens and stakeholders.

So even as I find myself grousing about the increasing traffic on the main thoroughfare that goes by my "doorstep", as more housing developments sprout up further and further into what once was "a rural area" down the road, I have to admit I'm part of the "great flight" and sprawl, too. People leaving what they perceive as crowded areas for something that feels more natural, more peaceful, more safe, more prosperous (jobs, economy), or whatever they're searching for.

How does it stop? I guess the answer is to get ruthless in setting zoning and deed restrictions, but that doesn't happen in areas that are struggling economically; indeed, restrictions are the first things to get relaxed when a big business shows an interest in moving in. San Antonio's a fabulous example of that particular phenomenon!

I paint a pretty bleak picture, I know. I don't see how to paint it any other way. I don't think sprawl is a uniquely Texan phenomenon, though our land area makes it especially easy to spot -- Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, anyone?

__________________
- Shannon Moore
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kai

the interesting thing about taxes is that a) you always hear about "Tax-a-Chusetts and b) my taxes in San Antonio proper were the SAME (give or take $100) as my house here. and my house here cost 3x as much, and has an acre of land.

but then again, we do have state income tax.

but then again, our sales tax is only 5%, not including food or clothes- which are not taxed at all.

i have a feeling that in the end- it all works out to be equal, tax wise.

yes, i see how it would be hard to say no to a big corp. that wants to move into an economically depressed area: see Toyota, PGA... but it seems like they also move out/shut down (levi's, sony...). it seems like the city leaders tend to whore out the city to a temporary solution rather than think about long term livability for its residents.

i'll admit that i'm not looking at this from a unbiased viewpoint. i don't like walmart at all- their business practices in particular. i wont get into it- but i refuse to shop there, and have for a while. i'd rather pay twice as much for something than shop there. besides- they're trying to mess up my once-favorite bike route!

do remember the community in California that was fighting to keep walmart out? it went to court, even- probably state supreme court- i wonder what happened to that case. I don't remember. it was probably last spring sometime. but in any case, that town did not want a walmart in their area. and it seems like no matter what zoning they tried to impliment to keep them out was getting shot down by the big corporate lawyers. so i don't really think walmart would stay out of somewhere they weren't wanted.

but - ahhhhh- i'll not beat a dead horse. i just find it sad that there's no end in site, and communities don't seem to think that there's any other way. I really wish that the communities in our country would try to celebrate their diversity. but somehow it seems like everything is starting to look the same- and all of it seems to be driven by big box stores and fast food. guess i should just move to europe and get it over with

dwalsdorf

helotes-heritage.org

For those interested in opposing the Wal-Mart in Helotes.

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Unregistered

The town of Helotes didn't really have a chance to stop Walmart, because the property they wanted to develop wasn't IN Helotes (it's just outside). But they tried, anyway. I don't want Walmart out there either. But since you're talking about biking along the highways/roads, I just want to bring up the danger that they're in. Do you realize how many drivers are drunk or doing several different things at one time that affect their driving? I drive that area often and I worry about the bikers. Please use caution!

copuswalker

Having grown up in Norwell Mass. and my wife in Hingham I can see what you mean.
We lived in Spring outside of Houston and had a 2300 sq' homw with a 600 foot office adjacent to it. We built our lake house and moved up here to Crockett. My wife wanted to keep the house for a year to be sure the kids adjusted. Being in business and worrying about owning two homes and lawsuits we decided to remove our homestead from the Houston home and place it on the more valuable Lake house. Our taxes jumped from $ 790 per year to $2400 overnight?? Pissed me off something wicked
Now we have an appraisal district that is convinced the Lake is the hottest thing since sliced bread. I am seeing 10% per year increases for the (who knows how long) indefinite future. I do fight them on every increase and try to explain that as a business person I am unable to raise my rates 10% per year... Of course it falls on deaf ears. I have circulated letters trying to organize but apathy rules.. 2 calls out of 160 letters. Of course when these people see me in the store they ask how the battle is going I have since learned to battle for ones own benefit and leave the sheep for the slaughter house Thank god for beer

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