Offshore Wind Farm - Padre Island - Wild Texas Forums: Parks, Travel & Recreation

Shannon · 05-12-2006, 12:46 AM

Hmm... it's difficult to know how to feel about this -- The nation's largest offshore wind farm will be built off the Padre Island seashore in South Texas.

The risk to migratory birds vs. cleaner, renewable energy. Your thoughts?

01ACRViper · 05-12-2006, 03:24 AM

IMHO birds will either a.) find a way around the windmills by avoiding the area completely, or b.) find a way around them in a short range way. either way, nature is smart enough to adapt to one little obstacle, it's not like they are going to stop migrating or drop dead because of the wind farm

Shannon · 05-12-2006, 09:23 AM

I think the concern is more due to bird strikes against the blades during storms and such. It's the same concern that folks living in cities with lots of high rise office buildings note (some perish after hitting buildings, antennas, etc.)

How many birds actually perish is of course a mystery. We have no real way of knowing how many die naturally vs. in these other ways.

I'm a proponent of clean, renewable energy, but not a blind one. At the very least, it reminds us all actions have reactions, some of which are unintended.

Cube · 05-12-2006, 09:56 AM

If I remember the article I read, this giant windfarm will only produce enough electricity for 125k homes. And it's going to cost a couple billion to build?

I'm all for clean energy, but how about making it easy to put solar panels on your house? We looked at doing it.. we would have to register as a power plant. We would have to agree to sell our excess to our supplier. We needed an attorney just to read the 20 pages of contract.. very disappointing!

As for the birds, they do adapt.. It's just funny, in a tragic way, to see the NIMBY attitude show up..

Turn Key · 05-12-2006, 02:04 PM

Hi Shannon,

Heard about this yesterday on the radio. I think it's a great idea but I told DW to watch for the "environmentalists". Told her it would take no time at all for them to find something wrong with this idea. Birds aren't stupid (well, maybe doves

) or there wouldn't be any in Holland or other places where wind is used as an energy source. I say "go for it".

Happy Camping!

Shannon · 05-12-2006, 02:52 PM

It's a shame environmentalist still equals environmental whacko in some folks' minds. Just as I'd hope we all want to find cleaner, renewable forms of energy (vs. polluting, non-renewable forms), I hope we'd all want to do that with considerable thought and care. I don't think there's anything wrong with due diligence, and it sounds like the farm is fully slated to be up and running in 5 years or so. To me, it doesn't sound like other than expressing concern for migratory bird species (we are on the Central Flyway, afterall) any environmentalists or environmental groups have stepped in and become a thorn in the side of wind farm.

The Cape Cod wind farms appears to be up in the air due to a lawsuit, not from environmentalists so much as property owners who don't want to look at wind turbines, apparently. Not sure what their real estate costs are up there, but hard to blame them, given how much uproar one Walmart creates in various towns.

Cube · 05-12-2006, 10:41 PM

I certainly agree that renewable power is a good thing.. and that there should be planning..

I do think that environmentalists are their own worse enemy. There are many different viewpoints and unfortunately, the press decides what gets published. This is the quote I read:

Some environmentalists said the spinning blades could kill countless rare birds that migrate through the area each year on their way to and from winter grounds in Mexico and Central America.

"You probably couldn't pick a worse location," said Walter Kittelberger, chairman of the Lower Laguna Madre Foundation, an environmental group named for the strip of water between the mainland and Padre Island.

This is not a reasonable request for study and compromise. Of course we live in the world of soundbites and oppositional politics, so who's surprised?

Shannon · 05-13-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

"You probably couldn't pick a worse location, unless you're trying to settle the issue as to how damaging they are to migratory birds," said Walter Kittelberger, a fishing guide who is chairman of the nonprofit Lower Laguna Madre Foundation. Laguna Madre is the strip of water between the mainland and Padre Island.

Oddly enough, that "couldn't be a worse location" comment comes from a fishing guide who happens to chair a coalition representing the area (no doubt some environmentalists, but probably more likely a group of businesses whose primary revenues stem from the nature tourism in the area -- birding, boating, fishing charters, etc.) At least, that's how I read the comment. Further reading shows the chairman is definitely pretty dead set against the wind farm, both for potential bird kills as well as perceived visual impact (additional news story: http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProces...Section=Valley)

That said, if even the Sierra Club is pretty happy with the proposed wind farm, this is a pretty tame outcry from the environmental camp, IMHO. Wind energy puts them in a difficult camp. Cry "foul" ("fowl"?!) and it becomes pretty hard to explain how we humans are supposed to generate energy.... rub two sticks together? Nope, deforestation and wildfire risk. Fossil fuels? Been there, doing that, paying the price (literally). Nuclear? Quiet and safe until a Three Mile Island or Chernobyl melt-down occurs, plus the hidden/under appreciated radioactive waste products that have to be stored on site or transported to deep fill storage facilities. Hydroelectric? We went through a phase of damming all the major rivers, and in addition to the costs of dam building (in lives, as well as $$'s) and community relocation (enlarging or creating reservoirs) we found environmental impacts as well -- turns out rivers are meant to flood occasionally, just like pine forests are meant to burn occasionally -- clears them out, infuses them with new life/nutrients, etc. Solar? Maturing ever-so-slowly...

For everything, there is a price. Something we give up as an "acceptable risk" until we have evidence to the contrary (and usually, even after that point, because momentum's carrying us along by that time...)

Cube · 05-13-2006, 10:05 AM

Can't argue with you here.. for the past century, we, Americans, have been trying to conquer nature rather than cooperate with it..
The Klamath Basin Water Wars, Katrina and the New Orleans levies, heck even Hoover Dam, Las Vegas and Pheonix are all examples of things that ain't supposed to be there.. and nature will keep reminding us that being out of balance is costly.

Now as for environmental groups.. I have had a bad taste in my mouth for years, so I may never be able to see them with a clear eye. I see the hypocrisy and greed. That is another discussion for another time.

Shannon · 05-13-2006, 02:53 PM

The only "environmental group" we support, directly (through annual memberships, nothing more), is The Nature Conservancy. It's largely "invisible" and buys land landowners are willing to sell, at a fair price, to set aside for conservation and/or recreation. They also have, at least last time I checked, one of the best administrative use of funds, meaning the bulk of one's donations don't end up getting sucked into a big general fund devoted to poor administration vs. the actual reason the organization exists.

Justin and I have a bad taste in general with non-profit organizations, at least at the local level. We were active participants in one locally for several years, when I was still in my late teens/early twenties, and the amount of power-hungry and petty behavior from people who were two or three times our age was a real eye opener. In our case, it wasn't an environmental non-profit but it was ostensibly set up for the public good/safety and yet people so often lost sight of that. To avoid dredging up long-dead ghosts, I won't mention the organization as it still exists in San Antonio, but suffice it to say I don't begrudge anyone for a bitter taste when it comes to such things.

toejam · 05-14-2006, 07:34 AM

The problem with windmills is they produce precious little electricity and what they do produce is unreliable. On the hottest and coldest days when the grid is desparate for more generation you'll probably get nothing from windmills. In 1999 the generating output of every windmill in the U.S. was less than that of either of Texas' nuclear plants. There's maybe three times that now due to tons of government money being spent on them. And there's my fundamental problem with windmill farms - the builders get rich at taxpayers expense and we get a couple of unreliable megawatts.

Of renewable energy sources only hydro power has the ability to produce significant amounts of electricity. There may be more nuke plants built before hydro dams. I'm a worker at a nuclear plant and I hope they don't ever build another one until there is spent fuel reprocessing and deep storage like there was supposed to be all along (I'll spare you the sermon for now).

When you have conversations about renewable energy, ask how many megawatts. A lot of industry and expense goes into producing a couple of megawats from the wind and sun.

Cube · 05-15-2006, 10:55 AM

Almost makes ya wish we could be like the indians.. live on the plains with the buffalo.

Our energy needs keep growing, a chicken in every microwave and all.. I hope that we can make smart decisions.

happybooker1 · 05-15-2006, 12:10 PM

Did you know the first 'environmentalists' were the Druids?? Just an FYI.....

CyberCelt · 05-17-2006, 11:06 PM

Y'all may want to read this publication about wind power.

There is a wind power trail in Texas.

"The new deal with Superior Renewable Energy calls for 166 or more turbines three to eight miles offshore, said Jim Suydam, a land office spokesman." Topix

There is research about birds and turbines.

IMHO, I would much rather see wind turbines than oil rigs on S. Padre.

rdove · 09-12-2006, 03:28 PM

I think it is so funny that you people comment on subjects that you have no idea about. Like the effect a new wind farm will have on the ecological system of North Padre. I personally live in Nolan County in west Texas where we are the leading producer of wind energy not only in America but in the world. I personally know that there will be a lot more at stake then just birds if they build this farm off the coast. The construction of these turbines is on a unprecedented scale. There is so much other work that people like ya'll don't see from your suburban homes that goes on behind the scenes. These companies dont just put up these turbines and pack up there stuff and go home. There are camps that these companies put up that are not temporary or small by any means. These camps house every crane, tractor and massive trench diggers for underground fiber-optic cable. Then there are sub-stations, not just one but there are 4 of these sub-stations in my area that take up as much land as a small power plant. Not too mention the erection of concrete factories that these giant turbines require. Each turbine requires 13 to 15 cement trucks just to keep it nestled in the ground. Each one of these holes is 20 feet deep. Now just think of all of this stuff but on a national seashore where turtles and various types of sea grass thrive. As I'm sure you have heard this phrase before "there is a time and a place for everything". Yes there is, the time for renewable energy is now and the place is wide open west Texas not our flourishing seashores which en lie endangered animals like Kemp Ridley turtles and Whooping Cranes. Oh and last but not least, the energy that Nolan and Taylor county produces does'nt even go to Texans, it goes to Californians. Just kind of makes you wonder where this electricity is going. You cant make money off what you already have. Before they put up these turbines Texas was already the leading producer of energy.