Hybrid Vehicles - Wild Texas Forums: Parks, Travel & Recreation

Shannon · 08-17-2005, 03:11 PM

What do you think about hybrid vehicles, like the Ford Escape? As someone who's driven a relatively fuel efficient, and extremely reliable and maintenance-hassle free 1992 Toyota Corolla, my one big concern about hybrids is not knowing the long-term ownership costs of them. For example, how long the additional batteries hybrids require actually last in real world use, and how much long-term (10 years, at least) maintenance costs might be -- comparable to a gasoline-engine-only vehicle, or far higher, due to more complex mechanisms, fewer such vehicles on the road (and thus fewer experienced repair/maintenance technicians).

Here's Google's results for ford escape hybrid discussion

Your thoughts?

lost_but_found · 08-22-2005, 04:22 PM

I personally don't know what to think about hybrids - other than the one perk of saving a few bucks in gas mileage - and sadly I believe that is most people's view of them - that I have talked to anyway.

Life expectancy of the hybrids will be a key issue of whether or not they are more ecologically sound for the enviroment and economically sound for the pockets of the people. Economics is the one thing that keeps me from buying something that gets 40+ miles to the gallon - I am just the average income with no tax-breaks class of people - I don't think it would be beneficial to me (maybe to the environment, but I would have to live out of my car) to pay more money for a car that is going to save me a gallon or two of gas a month compared to just paying for my good ol' '97 toyota camry that already gets fairly decent mileage anyway (30mpg). Plus, now that gas is superfluously expensive, I am driving half as much because I can only live on the budgeted amount of gas for a week anyway.

I just feel that the average American is going to weigh the economical side over the ecological one - presidence has proven this many times! - and that is what the *bleep bleeps* of the petroleum industry bank on, which perpetuate the use of fossil fuels. I guess my real opinion of hybrids is this; if you buy a hybrid, you are still guzzling gas - just not as much! They are still costly to the environment to build and opperate. So, yeah, maybe they don't emmit AS much pollution, but they still pollute - which is still contributing to the problem at hand. I'll tell you what I've been looking in to - mopeds - all I can say is 120MPG is pretty sweet!

Shannon · 03-06-2006, 11:42 PM

Bought my 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid this evening from a local dealership. I'll post more when I've driven her more than the short distance home from the dealership this evening to get her safe in my garage.

Posts related to hybrids on my personal blog, in chronological order:
* Ford Escape Hybrid (initial post regarding hybrid vehicle search)

* Hybrid Update -- still in pre-purchase mode

* (Today's entry, date of purchase!) Stealthy, Sexy & Mine!

Shannon · 03-12-2006, 11:21 PM

An informative article on hybrid cars and their batteries -- "Are Hybrid Batteries Toxic?"

Shannon · 03-13-2006, 09:47 PM

Here's a noteworthy quote I stumbled across this evening:

"The average stop sign in the U.S. causes an average of 20 tons of carbon dioxide to be added to the atmosphere yearly." -- www.BikeRoute.com

Now that I’m driving a full hybrid vehicle, eg. one that is capable of running on its electric only motor during low demand periods like stop signs, applying the brakes, Reverse, and many situations under 30mph, I’ve noticed how noisy and smelly stop lights/signs are. How/why so? Because everything around me is running its gasoline (internal combustion) engine, and I’m whirring along in electric only “stealth mode”.

Knowing our government, they’ll ban stop signs and stoplights and claim it’s an “environmental initiative.”

CyberCelt · 03-18-2006, 12:09 AM

I have an energy page on USAer. I feel it is important that we all do our part. There are tax incentives for purchasing a hybrid in 2006. I believe the tax breaks will be continued.

Write your congress person. Let them know it is important.

Way to go, Shannon. I keep waiting for my 1994 car to crater so that I can buy a hybrid.

Shannon · 03-18-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCelt

I have an energy page on USAer. I feel it is important that we all do our part. There are tax incentives for purchasing a hybrid in 2006. I believe the tax breaks will be continued.

The hybrid tax credits will remain in place until each manufacturer (eg. Ford, Toyota, GM, Chrysler, etc.) have sold a certain pre-determined number of hybrid vehicles. Toyota is currently far outpacing the other manufacturer's, so tax credits on Toyota hybrids (like the Prius) will probably dry up first. Still, it doesn't look like that will happen this year even on Toyota models, which is good news to those on the fence about a hybrid purchase. There *is* a proposal on the books to remove the caps so that the hybrid tax credits can remain for a several more years. We'll see if that one gets through Congress and past the President.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCelt

Write your congress person. Let them know it is important.

Way to go, Shannon. I keep waiting for my 1994 car to crater so that I can buy a hybrid.

I've already started drafting a letter for my state representatives, since Texas is one of many states that does not reward or incentivize hybrid or alternative fuel vehicles (not among consumers, anyway; there may be some incentive for fleet vehicles like bus fleets, etc., such as the propane-run VIA buses here in San Antonio.)

Also, we kept my 1992 Toyota Corolla. It still gets 27mpg and my husband has been driving it to work now, instead of his gas-guzzling Ford F-150 Supercrew 4x4 pickup. One reason I got a new car was that the '92 Corolla has a poor crash test rating and no airbags, etc. But my husband's commute to/from work is relatively short and he's free to drive the F-150 when he wants, it's just that the Corolla is also easier to park in his workplace's parking garage, in addition to being more fuel efficient than the F-150. The hybrid's most certainly my baby, but he'll get to drive it occasionally.

Shannon · 03-30-2006, 09:54 AM

Letters sent to city (San Antonio, where we reside) and Texas government representatives regarding hybrid use/ownership:

To Texas Governor Rick Perry (Contact Info.)

Quote:

Governor Perry,

I recently replaced a 1992 Toyota Corolla (27mpg) with a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid (31/36mpg), and as a result I've become more interested in what our state and national government is doing to encourage hybrid use and/or ownership.

As you know, by 2007 and 2008, there will be literally a dozen hybrid vehicles in production and available for purchase in the USA, including several pickups (Dodge Ram Hybrid, GMC Silverado and Sierra) and large SUVs (Dodge Durango, Porsche Cayenne; a full list is available at http://www.hybridcars.com/cars.html)

I was quite pleased to learn about H.B. No. 1156, proposed during the 79th regular legislative session -- an act relating to the rate of the motor vehicle sales and use tax imposed on certain new hybrid motor vehicles.

This email serves to voice my support, and that of my fellow Texan hybrid owners, to H.B. 1156 and all other legislation that could serve to support, encourage and reward hybrid use and/or ownership in the State of Texas. As I'm sure you know, hybrids are being used by the U.S. National Park Service, the U.S. Postal Service, the City of New York (cabs) and many others, as well as ordinary citizens such as myself. The U.S. Federal Government offers a one-time Income Tax Credit for hybrid owners. It would certainly be reasonable that the State of Texas would offer a similar one-time incentive.

Sincerely,

- Shannon Moore
San Antonio, TX
2006 Ford Escape Hybrid owner

To San Antonio District #3 Councilman Roland Gutierrez (Contact Info.) --
he's not my rep, but as the originator of San Antonio's hybrid proposal, I contacted him for support.

Quote:

Councilman Gutierrez,

I recently replaced a 1992 Toyota Corolla (27mpg) with a 2006 Ford
Escape Hybrid (31/36mpg), and as a result I've become more interested
in what our city, state and national government is doing to encourage
hybrid use and/or ownership.

I was quite pleased to learn (via http://go.ucsusa.org/hybridcenter/incentives.cfm#TX) that you proposed a pilot program for San Antonio which would grant hybrid owners free parking at the City's parking meters for one year. It's a commendable start.

I realize you proposed this in January, but I wanted to inquire as to your thoughts on whether it might actually be adopted by the San Antonio City Council. If you think it's at risk of not being accepted, is there anything San Antonio area hybrid owners can do to assure the City there is indeed a growing base of hybrid owners in their jurisdictions? As you know, by 2007 and 2008, there will be literally a dozen hybrid vehicles in production and available for purchase in the USA, including several pickups (Dodge RAM Hybrid, GMC Silverado and Sierra) and large SUVs (Dodge Durango, Porsche Cayenne; a full list is available at http://www.hybridcars.com/cars.html)

Sincerely,

- Shannon Moore
San Antonio, TX
2006 Ford Escape Hybrid owner

Interested in hybrid related incentives or proposals for other U.S. states, the Federal government, etc.?
State and Federal Hybrid Incentives

CyberCelt · 03-31-2006, 10:27 PM

The Union of Concerned Scients and Bill Nye wants you, Shannon.

They have a website and they want stories from hybrid owners. They are hoping to have 1000 by Earth Day (4/22).

:cool:

Shannon · 03-31-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCelt

The Union of Concerned Scients and Bill Nye wants you, Shannon.

They have a website and they want stories from hybrid owners. They are hoping to have 1000 by Earth Day (4/22).

:cool:

I'm already there!

Sadly, they warped my photo. Here's the original.

Shannon · 04-10-2006, 11:26 PM

Not to add to the already choking levels of "smug" emanating from hybrid owners (see South Park's hybrid episode), but I have to gloat a little bit. {Missed the episode? Download, but be warned, it's typical South Park.}

You see, I've already been admonished and scolded by the owner of one hybrid discussion forum. My offense? Admitting I was perfectly happy to get 30-33mpg in my Ford Escape Hybrid if that was the best I could do without angering the majority of my fellow drivers by driving too slowly and/or feeling as though endangering myself and my vehicle.

So, I take a bit of giddy pride in the fact that just by driving my Ford Escape Hybrid normally in the past month and several days, my mileage has been steadily increasing, such that I can happily report that today, for the first time since I took ownership of our hybrid, I have not only consistently met but exceeded the EPA mileage estimate for my 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid (36mpg city/31mpg highway) during today's driving.

Of course, "hypermilers" get far more miles per gallon out of their vehicles, hybrid and non-hybrid alike, but they also do a lot of things that may increase driver workload or are not practical or attractive options to some of us. I take some joy in the fact that without altering my driving greatly, and with a tremendous increase in my enjoyment of driving, I've exceeded EPA estimates and foresee getting even better numbers as the vehicle gets fully broken in and my comfort with the vehicle increases further. Many "hypermiling tricks" are quite reasonable and applicable to non-hybrids as well as hybrids, so I'm not knocking the laudable goal of achieving the highest mpg possible in one's vehicle... I just have caveats to that which, apparently, some of the hard core hypermilers do not have.

36+ mpg in a vehicle that weighs significantly more than my 1992 Toyota Corolla (which gets 27mpg). Gotta love it!

I still have 120+ MTE (Miles To Empty) before I refuel. At that time, I will compute my mileage for this tank -- I fully expect it to be in the 32-34mpg range.

CyberCelt · 04-11-2006, 03:11 PM

Oh, girl. I saw that SouthPark. Just do not start smelling your emissions and it will be okay.

ploddinTod · 04-23-2006, 06:18 PM

The only things negative that Consumer Reports (CR) had to say about the Ford Escape Hybrid were (1) noisy on the highway when running on the gasoline engine, and (2) that CR would not recommend the Escape because of a tip-up in the government rollover test.

FYI. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from the Escape. But my wife and I are doing some research on a new vehicle purchase and came across this bit of info.

The government incentive does make a hybrid vehicle look more attractive.

Shannon · 04-23-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ploddinTod

The only things negative that Consumer Reports (CR) had to say about the Ford Escape Hybrid were (1) noisy on the highway when running on the gasoline engine, and (2) that CR would not recommend the Escape because of a tip-up in the government rollover test.

I wonder if they used a sound meter to actually measure the sound level in the cabin or if it was a reviewer perception? Because I can say in my own experience our 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid is MUCH quieter than our 1992 Toyota Corolla at highway speeds, and while the engine in the hybrid does rev higher when accelerating harder (such as to overtake a vehicle or enter the highway via an access ramp), it is not what I would call "loud" it's just a higher pitched sound than what most drivers are used to at first... and it lasts only as long as you accelerate hard. Once you're up to 60-70mph, the rpm's drop back down to 2000 or so (normal for an Atkinson cycle gasoline engine, which is what's in the Ford Escape Hybrid; our Corolla is a traditional Otto cycle engine.) and the sounds drop accordingly. I wonder what Consumer Reports rated the 2001 Ford F-150 engine noise as because I consider it to ride loud although some of that is the slightly aggressive (not mud terrain or anything excessive like that) tread on Justin's tires.

The best bet when considering any new vehicle purchase is to test drive the model for yourself. Reviews, even first hand ones from other owners, are good but they only go so far.

As for rollover ratings, you will find that is standard for all SUVs and most trucks (many SUVs are built on truck frames). It's just the nature of the beast due to the higher center of gravity found in an SUV's design vs. a sedan or sports car. Justin's F-150 has a rollover warning on the back of both sunvisors, for example.

We did buy the side curtain airbags option however, in part for peace of mind and also because the Ford Escape with side curtain airbags performed much better in certain crash tests than one not so equipped. The same would be true of the non-hybrid version.

There are MANY different makes/models of hybrids available now, so don't let my praises and references to our new Ford Escape Hybrid make you think that's the only choice. For example, the Honda Civic has been available for at least 2 years in hybrid form (and I know a local owner who loves hers) and the Toyota Camry is coming out in 2007 -- you'll be able to buy one soon.

Shannon · 05-02-2006, 11:02 AM

For anyone eyeing a new 2007 Ford vehicle (including the Ford Escape Hybrid):

Article: http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/05/02/...ces/index.html

Relevant bit:
"It also will cut the sticker price on its Escape Hybrid SUV by $1,000 in an effort to shrink the gap between the hybrid and the standard versions of the compact SUV."

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